One or two other sensibly-minded gadflies are joining with my fine self on an experiment, to find out what happens to lefties who use their “let me further persuade you to my point of view with my dismissive attitude” technique — when it doesn’t work. The result, so far, is: What started as a left-winger bitching about the bad press Obama was getting over skipping the Boy Scout centennial, has popcorned into a thread just shy of eighty comments about all sorts of stuff.
The persuasive-dismissive-attitude thing is being retried and retried. It’s developed into something of a nervous tic for them.
Socialism isn’t bad at all. It has worked quite well in a number of other places. Why? Well, because when and where it has worked, it has been restrained by the best impulses of Capitalism. The all or nothing meme is getting really worn out.
Here in the United States, I would posit that Capitalism works best. But only when it is restrained by Socialistic impulses. That’s why our Capitalist system worked, more or less, swimmingly from 1945 to the early 1980’s. There were economic ups and downs, but no cataclysm. The only clusterphucks we’ve known economically have come in 1929 and since deregulation in the 1980’s. Why? It’s not because the Gilded Age Presidents or Ronald Reagan were pure evil. Liberals who talk that way presume these men WANTED to destroy America. And that’s just nonsense. They meant well, were sincere and were, clearly, sincerely wrong.
Socialism is no evil, unless it us unbridled. In North Korea and the old Soviet Union, it was unbridled. Capitalism is no evil. In fact, it is pregnant with the potential for great good. When it is bridled. Since Ronald Reagan (and in fairness, I should note that some deregulation was championed by the supposedly liberal Jimmy Carter), we have had nothing but a succession of extreme Capitalists as Presidents. Barack Obama is simply a Capitalist, but not an extremist. If nationalizing Willard “Mitt” Romney’s health care reform plan is Socialism, then Billy Sunday’s tent revivals were Roman Catholic masses.
Socialistic restraints have kept capitalism bridled. Our messy capitalistic-socialist hodgepodge is the best of both worlds, or something.
I guess when I see socialism making these big messes, like the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac situation, and blame them on capitalism…that’s just the wonderfulness oozing out.
So I replied:
Capitalism places the opposite participant in a transaction (seller, if you’re the buyer; buyer, if you’re the seller) in the same position of authority that socialism invests in some centralized dictator who is far less interested in the outcome, knows a whole lot less about the nature of it, and is consistently an asshole.
Capitalism has no need to be bridled. It is self-bridling. It is equally risible to talk about bridled & non-bridled socialism; it is inherently unbridled. Any & all charter documents that seek to place limits on power, socialism labors to undermine. Once the ruling party gets it in their head they want to do something, anything standing in the way is exactly that and nothing more. Just an obstacle to be defeated.
And the socialism-isn’t-bad guy came back with:
Capitalism is self-bridling? OMG. Morgan, that is possibly the most clueless thing I have ever heard any intelligent person say.
Tell that to the people in Anniston, Alabama; Mossville, Louisiana; and Lima, Ohio. Tell that to the families of the miners killed in West Virginia or the workers killed on the BP Oil rig.
Unbridled Capitalism is no different than unbridled Socialism. Both lead to negligent homicide.
This orgy of deregulation must be stopped, just as the orgy of oppression in the old USSR had to be stopped.
Heaven help me, it’s the dreaded OMG retort. It’s been the juggernaut of arguments since the debates that took place in ancient Athens.
What is this guy, twelve?
Yes Jim. Self-bridling. Capitalism has its restraints built in. They may be disappointing to a pipe-dreamer who’s come up with a vision, unenforced by reality, of what the self-restraints ought to be (socialistic governments are absolutely NOT self-bridling). But they’re there.
You sell something, the buyer has to agree to the price and the terms. Otherwise you go out of business. You buy something, the seller must agree or you go home empty handed.
Government does something like, oh…regulate BP? BP writes in the answers to the audit in pencil, the auditor traces over it in pen. The mentally flaccid will say “Aha! See? That’s a failure of capitalism!” But it isn’t. “Regulatory oversight” was put in place, and it was found not to work.
Hey wouldn’t it be sweet to have a job like that? You’re supposed to do something…and when you use the time to stare at porn all day instead of doing your job, it’s the other guy’s fault.
You want unbridled? Look at Obama or any other leftwing dictator asshole. The rules say He can’t do something, and whatever that rule is it’s just a minor irritant, nothing more. That’s what I call unbridled.
Or if you insist on something in the private sector, look to the businesses that employ illegal aliens. There’s your “unbridled.”
Capitalism is self-bridling. Obama makes it a lot more expensive to hire people, and in keeping with the law, the corporations lay people off. And then this is supposed to be the fault of capitalism somehow.
But I never said the bridling had to be comfortable for everyone. Businesses that want to operate out in the light, do what must be done in order to stay legal. And then it’s their fault, even though the leftist government comes up with the policies. Often, in contravention to the Constitution and other laws.
Obama shakes down BP, has the “audacity” to pick up the phone and order them to put billions of dollars in a pot. Hey, is that your idea of self bridling? Just curious.
No reply posted as of yet. There are other dialogues going on in this thing…so I expect to see this particular train of thought Cheesecake-Nazi’d out. Ooh, bright shiny object.
But this theory of mixing together…oh my, how I’d love to set the cross-hairs of a .50 cal. upon it. This is an idea that needs to die. It is toxic. It ranks high on the list of things that have diminished the opportunities of the generations of Americans, now to levels beneath that enjoyed by their parents. It’s killing the country, this “epoxy theory.” Socialism, capitalism. Mix ’em together, shake the bag a few times, and what you get is twice as good as either one by itself.
Over and over again, we see that is not what you get. Whatever the effort is, whatever the industry is, the results are the same: The productive are strapped to a sort of gurney, and the non-productive figure out they can attain a higher lifestyle by being dicks. Then they gather around the bloated succulent victim, bare their fangs and suck like the craven vampires they are. The next generation is taught to be vampires, not bloated succulent gurney-meat; and can you blame them? Real jobs are for losers.