House of Eratosthenes

We’ll shelve this whole issue, until such time as some other aspect of it becomes worthy of discussion and has not received that discussion…right after we get done discussing those aspects worthy of discussion that have not received the discussion. Really, promise, a break is coming. “Passing Lane, One Mi. Ahead.” But it isn’t here quite yet…because there is still one undiscussed aspect. We’ll fix that puppy up right now.

The point. The whole point. The Zachriel provides it, for our edification, at 07/22/2012, 09:21…

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

The Zachriel further edifies us, 07/23/2012 at 06:20…

“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

The Zachriel educates us even further, at 09:11…

Second things second: “The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together”…

In case we still haven’t gotten it, The Zachriel applies further effort at 09:55, to make sure we have…

“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

The Zachriel then schools us again, the next morning, at 05:02…

“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

The Zachriel then clarifies at 06:38…

“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

The Zachriel then expounds, or at least allows the Presidents words to get that done…for our further enrichment…

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

Nightfly observes, at 08:44:

I went back and counted, and you have used the “individual initiative/also do things together” quote 9 times…including twice in one comment…It seems to me as if this quote is this thread’s version of that .gif you kept linking, or maybe “3°-5°C in the upper range.” You just repeat it mechanically as if it proves your point, instead of being the point of contention.

Top of the hour, The Zachriel clarifies what exactly it is they mean to prove, by doing this…

Just to be clear, we are the only one who pointed to context for the first two days of the discussion. And no one has bothered to explain how the context is consistent with the original post’s interpretation.

“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

The Zachriel fail to understand the point of a “point.” Let’s look it up. Defs. #15 through #17 are applicable, I should think…

15. An objective or purpose to be reached or achieved, or one that is worth reaching or achieving: What is the point of discussing this issue further?
16. The major idea or essential part of a concept or narrative: You have missed the whole point of the novel.
17. A significant, outstanding, or effective idea, argument, or suggestion: Your point is well taken.

Now, we could quibble endlessly about whether The Zachriel are intending this to be taken as Definition #16, when The President actually meant #17, or so on and so forth…I notice all three of them leave some room for subjective interpretation. In #15, how do we define “worth reaching/achieving”; in #16, how do we define “major or essential”; in #17, how do we define significant, outstanding, effective. These are important questions to ask, when we are considering the words of a President who is clearly sorry and regretful — well, as much as it is possible for Him to be any of those things, I suppose — wishes He could take back what He said, and is, it’s painfully obvious to see, in full-bore damage-control “what I meant to say” mode.

I have a good way of defining points, I think: A point can be Pillar II or Pillar III; the inference or opinion, or the thing-to-do. If you arrive at one of those, it can be compellingly asserted that you have made a point. If you do not, then this would have to be called into question.

The key is actionability. Have you made a point that prevails on us, or somebody else, to do something…or, at the very least, to conclude something. Something that might ultimately translate into a thing to be done, or not done.

According to this test I have devised, which I am not devising specifically to damage Him or the “point” He has sought to make, but rather to meaningfully address the question at hand “what is a point?”…the President’s “point” fails. But it doesn’t have to. It meanders off into the direction of making a real “point,” it’s just that a gap remains. What do we need, to close the gap? All we have to do, is infer something meaningful, or figure out that something has to be done.

The business owner did not “build that” all by himself or all by herself…”the point is, that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together”…what are we to conclude from that, to make an actual point?

Inferences/opinions…well…we are capable of success. We are capable of individual initiative. We are also capable of working together. Those things are undeniable, but I’m not entirely sure what good they’re going to do anyone. I mean, once people have done it, does it really have to be pointed out they’re capable of doing it? Seems to me, the successes should stand on their own.

Things to do: Something is owed! Those businesses have been gettin’ away with shenanigans. Ah, now this is much more convincing…and, if you listen to the murmur of the crowd, you will notice, this intended meaning seems to fit right in. Like a good rhythm fitting a good melody.

YEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!! They didn’t do that on their own! They had help! Somebody else made it happen! YAAAYYYY!!!

Here we come to an other point: For this other work to become relevant, for it to become a “point,” we need something that tends toward actionability. What we need, is an unpaid bill. Those businesses, they made use of this labor and they haven’t made recompense. Relief is owed, and sought.

President Obama, the lucky stiff, cannot be burdened with such an albatross around His neck, because He didn’t actually say this. But the crowd certainly is energized by the sentiment, make no mistake about that. And seriously, to cut through the crap, to acknowledge even for a moment that the businesses paid for the products and services they used to realize their success, provided and manufactured by others — why, that reduces the President’s remarks to just so much hurr durr derp. “The baker didn’t harvest the wheat to make the bread, the farmer did that” — eh, yeah, like freakin’ duh. And, once the baker gets done baking, it is the baker’s product because the baker paid the farmer. That’s how it works, and that is how it’s supposed to work.

So the other point is, capitalism is a great economic model and the President is wrong to try to inflict damage on it. If His speech has any other “point” to it, it is that the farmer deserves credit for the bread…which, through the magic of capitalism, he receives in the form of payment for the grain. The same is true of the teacher, and the construction workers who built those “roads and bridges,” along with the boss of the construction company that received payment from the city, county, state or federal government, and met payroll and bought the equipment and supplies to get those roads built.

The point is — the other point I mean — no economic model can succeed over the long term, unless it provides a sustaining reward for the credit that the President says all these people are due. Which the free market does, and has done long before President Obama ever came along. No “change” needed.

And there is, yet, another point to be made. Marxism is lately resurfacing, in the form of some desire for a compromise between the free market, and other things that are not the free market. When this desire solidifies itself into recorded speech, there has to come soon afterward, as we’re seeing now, a follow-up spin-control effort of “I/he/she/they didn’t really mean to say that.” It is a fairly consistent pattern…which is a defining attribute of a bad idea.

See, the whole argument is bad, because it has to keep shifting from foot to foot and back again, to keep from falling down. The compensation for these services that other people provided; either it was paid in full, or it was not. So the Marxist’s answer to the quandary, is to “strobe” the issue, to talk it up under terms of “it is relevant and worth talking about when I say it is.” The business wouldn’t succeed without a bridge! That is relevant! Okay…so the business paid for the bridge. Not relevant! And this is an enduring weakness with redistributionist economic models, and the propaganda that surrounds them: Is something still owed? They have to keep tap-dancing around it. They can’t address that question head-on, and discuss it honestly. They’d lose if they did.

So now, the President-didn’t-really-say-that, and what He really meant to say was, when success is realized, a lot of people had a hand in it. They worked together. He meant to say that, and nothing more…so anybody who says He meant to say something else, I guess we can call ’em racists or whatever.

But then that leaves the question:

So, what? A whole bunch of people did something — so what? If I’m to conclude anything from that, it is that we’d better keep this free market capitalist system around, since we rely on it to deliver things that, were we to try to acquire them through some other means, would just lead to cynical comedy at best and disaster at worst.

The point is, he tried to couch his point in weasel words and failed miserably.
- philmon | 07/25/2012 @ 20:24

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The Other PointWednesday, July 25th, 2012

The Other Point
Wednesday, July 25th, 2012