House of Eratosthenes

Robert at Small Dead Animals wants to know how to discuss things with an Obama supporter. Brave man. I know this is above my pay grade when I see the phrase “gotten us into” included twice in the short paragraph he includes, to clue interested readers in on what the problem is:

Obama hasn’t gotten us into this mess, which is the worst recession since the 1930’s, and based on the fact that much of the collapse revolved around lack of regulation in the housing loan business, there’s no quick fix. Once people started losing their homes, it has a domino effect. George W. Bush is the one who got us into two wars, gave tax cuts, and added medicare benefits without EVER including them in his budget. Obama got the hand he was dealt. And I can tell you that the Republicans have done absolutely EVERYTHING they can to stop every effort he makes to get the economy back on track.

Maybe that’s the best way to deal with it, I dunno: “What if George W. Bush started agreeing with Barack Obama on everything?” Well check that, no it wouldn’t help matters any, all it would do is illustrate the obvious: These people are obsessed with faces and names, they don’t care about the content of any ideas, which is the very first step to caring about what ideas work and what ideas don’t.

The whole thing is just silly.

“Hey look, the debt is unsustainable. You took in this much, you spent that much…”

“Oh yeah, well Bush got us into, blah blah blah blah blah.”

(Long, incredulous pause, then more slowly…) “You took in this much…you spent that much…”

“GEORGE W. BUSH!”

(Longer pause…)

Maybe cheesecake is the answer after all.

You know, I guess if the point is going to be made that someone has to talk to these people because the survival of the civilization we know depends on it…probably the best place to start is with the “there’s no quick fix” thing. Not because there’s some easy diplomacy there — there ISN’T, because the Obamachron’s ego is wrapped up tightly around every sentence, every syllable — but because it’s the most delightful and pure bundle of silliness out of the whole thing. Yes, it might look like an attack. Yes, that will send the other party into defense mode, which isn’t helpful. But it simply cannot be allowed to let stand.

It reminds me of: “Why do you let your daughter interrupt you when you’re on the phone with me?” “She’s four!” Um, yeah…that is a correct fact, I don’t see what that has to do with anything. It is equally correct that “there is no quick fix.” Why do people assume that just because these simplistic statements are correct, they somehow invert the very truths that make up the universe in which we live? Hocus pocus, and we’re suddenly back in Joe Biden’s alternate reality of “must spend money to keep from going broke.”

The oasis is so far that we will die of thirst before we get there, therefore we should head in the opposite direction…you know, even that analogy makes too much sense to fit, since we live on a globe that is round, and that plan would eventually work, die-of-thirst and trans-oceanic travel considerations notwithstanding.

I suppose that’s all just a bunny trail. It never ceases to amaze and fascinate me how people use nonsense to prop up other nonsense.

Commenter dashing recommended a link to a video showing a timeline of the financial & housing crisis. I think it’s this one. I’m pretty sure, without checking, there’s a progressive “debunking of the urban myth” that addresses this. After all, it threatens them. That’s why they don’t want us watching Fox News, right?

Tenebris says: “They could find the guts to pass a budget, rather than hiding under a bush.” Heh. Funny!

But ultimately, what we’re really seeing here is Thing I Know #401. People who refuse to work with details don’t fix things. The recurring theme has nothing whatsoever to do with ideas that bring good results, or ideas that do not; it isn’t about ideas at all. Said theme is only concerned with: Strip these people over here of any influence at all, give as much influence as you can to those other people, over there. Put it all in a big snow globe and shake it all about, and things should work out more-or-less okay. If that had anything to do with ideas, there’d be some thought given to: Duh, hey, waitaminnit that’s exactly what got done in November of ’08…we’ve been down this road already. Well I suppose “Republicans have done absolutely EVERYTHING they can to stop every effort he makes” is included to preemptively dismiss that most obvious point. But by “some thought” I’m referring to something a bit more focused and disciplined than, anticipating an obvious point and including a catchphrase to preemptively shunt it aside.

Some kind of concern for outcome is what I mean. It’s entirely missing here.

The concern is all being systematically piped to that other thing discussed above, the stripping influence from some individuals and elevating the influence of other people. These vocal myrmidons are the “useful idiots” of those other people. I know this for a fact, because I get the e-mails. Michelle and I are having our anniversary…can you send three bucks in right now…it’s me, Michelle, Barack’s birthday is coming up can you kick in five…get on the social networking sites, and say this stuff. We’ll need your help in November, vote out those Republicans, they’re stopping the really cool ideas we have that I don’t want to talk about right now.

Useful idiots, using up the last of their usefulness.

I don’t know what’s more pitiful and pathetic: The name “George W. Bush” is still flying about thick & fast this late in the game, or, they’re setting up the talking point that President Obama only had a friendly Congress for the first one hundred thirty-three days. Um, hey…that is the length of time President Obama got to deal with a Senate with sixty senators on His side, a filibuster-proof super-majority. Modern Nero has to have that in order to get anything done? And His ostensible supporters are admitting to this?

That one seems to me like something that would be better left unsaid.

Cross-posted at Right Wing News.

“much of the collapse revolved around lack of regulation in the housing loan business”

Just as much of it, and perhaps more of it, was precisely due to some of the kinds of regulations we had in the housing loan busines … those being a requirement to loan to people of certain protected demographic bases or the government wouldn’t let you do business, which led to overly relaxed standards on just about everybody (hey, can’t be ‘unfair’, can you?) coupled with the fact that the loans are basically backed by the full faith and credit of the American People, so how much of a risk is it *really* to give or take a loan?

I’d say regulation itself had a LOT to do with what happened, and it had little if anything to do with Bush and much more to do with Carter. When you say it didn’t happen overnight, you’re right! Matter of fact, Bush himself warned of the Freddie/Fannie crisis several times, but the Democrats in Congress (and some guilty Republicans, too) who had, to say the least, some conflicts of interest in the matter, sat on their hands.

Bush gets blamed for too much, because it’s “cool” to bash him. So cool, it doesn’t matter what your bashing him for and whether or not he actually had anything to do with it, people will leave you alone for the most part if you do it, which makes it “safe”.

Like giving a bad loan to someone that the Government will guarantee for you.
- philmon | 10/08/2012 @ 07:17
Oh yes. I’m all for a solution involving Cheesecake.
- philmon | 10/08/2012 @ 07:20
Best gotdamned link I’ve seen all month, Phil. Thanks for that!
- bpenni | 10/08/2012 @ 11:03
You can’t talk to the ones with closed minds. Before we went into Iraq 2nd time, I had a co-worker tell me that the UN hadn’t passed any resolutions against Iraq. That was after they’d passed 19 resolutions against Iraq. You can’t have a discussion with someone that is willfully blind or demonizes all Republicans. You do have a chance with those that are willing to read something that goes against their candidate without screaming “FOX NEWS!!!!”. You might not change their minds but they are at least willing to entertain that they could be wrong. That’s okay. It took me awhile to stop voting Democratic too.
- teripittman | 10/08/2012 @ 12:07
You’ve got a valuable perspective on this that I lack, Teri.

I was done with dems during Carter. When I was about twelve or thirteen. What did it for me was just…well, looking around. EVERYTHING sucked. Yeah, the hostage crisis made young-punk kids think of foreign policy. General ineptness. So it’s not that I’m quicker than you or anything, it was just different things making an impression on me. Kinda makes me wonder how many thirteen-year-olds are being given a lifelong impression right now.
- mkfreeberg | 10/08/2012 @ 12:18
Even with that, though, I didn’t hit on the “For the love of God, we’ve GOT to keep these people out of there” until Clinton. I found out a couple years after my divorce was over that my ex-wife was a dem, and I never took the time or trouble to figure that out. I think I still had one or two dem girlfriends after that, even. I don’t think it was until after the Florida debacle that I really figured out, some people are negative and some people are positive. And THAT is where I figured out some people are not reachable; they don’t live in that world-of-ideas I was talking about, they’re not that concerned with the outcome.
- mkfreeberg | 10/08/2012 @ 12:21
Heh, Buck. Those who know me well know I have a very soft spot for vintage pinup …

It’s nice to see it making a comeback. I just wish it wasn’t so heavy with all the inked skin and hardware perforation with sharp metal objects (maybe my version of “get off my lawn!” 😉 )

Enough of it, thankfully, is not … enough to hold my interst.
- philmon | 10/08/2012 @ 12:34
My favorite question for these “it was all lack of regulation that did it” folks (a question I stole from you, actually, Morgan): “Ok, so which regulations, specifically, did you have in mind?”

Shuts ’em right the hell up. Or. at least, it should, since “regulation” is one of those “hare Krishna” words — they don’t know or care what it means, since it’s just something you intone to prove your superior virtue to anyone who might be listening.

If you really want to rub it in, you can go a bit further: “Ok, so I assume you’d at least want to regulate CMOs…. oh, you don’t know what those are? It stands for ‘collateralized mortgage obligation.’ Oh, you don’t know what that means either? Well, do you know what ‘collateralized’ means? How about ‘obligation’?” By that point, they’re tearfully calling you a racist.

See, this is why I say that liberalism, which is Marxism, is just resentment writ large. Everything’s tied up with the personality of the speaker. Teenagers think this way — if Dad’s for it, I’m against it, since I’m concerned with the fate of humanity while he’s worried about grubby sordid stuff like groceries and the light bill.
- Severian | 10/08/2012 @ 13:10

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Hiding Under a BushMonday, October 8th, 2012

Hiding Under a Bush
Monday, October 8th, 2012