House of Eratosthenes

One of the objectives that it would be nice to see a SECDEF try to achieve, is to retain some semblance of respect from the troops. That is not a vital and minimalist goal, of course…you could say it is one for the Generals but not for the suits that hold civilian command over the armed forces…but it would be good if the working relationship was a good one, or if there was at least some effort expended to make it a good one.

I saw a post up on a milblog somewhere that said something like, you just KNOW the guys at the top are pissed off when they break out the big-words book! (I think the big word under discussion was “reprehensible” or something.) See, that right there is the trouble. The big boss looks not at all like a big boss, he looks like a little puppet dancing to a tune, tossing around big fancy words that he knows, and everybody else knows — and he knows they know — that real people don’t actually use. Well okay, unless maybe if they’re bloggers. The whole exercise looks phony because it is. Imagine what that feels like to you when you’re out on your third deployment, doing the dirty work when it’s 130 degrees in the shade.

I understand this argument about recruited-terrorists, how when these pictures appear it makes it look like the United States is declaring a war on Islam, which is not a perception we can afford to have out there. But there is something about this that I’m having a tough time figuring out: One, this would obviously be a vexing puzzle for us, and a dangerous one, far more important than many of the others. How do we expect to win at it, then, without discussing it more openly? Since 2004 the only rule that’s been in place about it is “just don’t do it” — with a strong undertone of don’t talk about it. Well, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

And two: Has it ever occurred to these geniuses that some may be reacting to situations like this with a quite reasonable attitude of “I’m not going to take you seriously if you don’t take yourself seriously”? There’s quite a lot to be said for a response, from the top, of: Look, if you don’t want your dead body defiled, don’t shoot at our guys.

“I understand this argument about recruited-terrorists…”

I don’t and never agreed with that lame argument. For example, could you see yourself joining a group, say…like the Occupy dickheads…because…I dunn’o, the cops blasted them with water cannons or whatever a good analogy would fit? Let’s go Nazi for sake of hyperbole, though Nazi=Taliban/Al Qeada is a good comparison, I can’t see someone of good mind and character being totally opposed to invading Europe, etc, slaughtering everyone in their way, burning 6 million Jews plus other “undesirables” and then having a change of heart and going down to their local SS recruiter because they find out US Marines were pissing on dead German soldiers. Not buying it.

My point being, if people are inclined to join a group that do what the Taliban and their friends in Al Qaeda do I have to believe they’re not exactly loving us too much too begin with.

That and they really love goat sex.

Piss all ya’ want my fellow Devil Dogs, just lose the freakin’ video camera.
- tim | 01/13/2012 @ 10:15
Yeah, but you said good mind and character. This invalidates the thought process, because you’re no longer talking about the type of people who would do this.

I do believe in a Maslov’s Pyramid, that priorities change when the availability of certain staples for continued life, change…although that part has been oversold, too, since we’ve been sustaining repeated assaults by young men from fairly well-to-do families. But also, I believe humans are wired to become much more loyal to a movement, or a creed, if they can perceive there’s an us-versus-them dynamic at work. It’s the way we’re all wired, and from what I’ve seen, the clerics make use of this. Just seems like a beast we don’t need to be feeding.

I’m in complete agreement about pissing away when the cameras are turned off.

I’m also in agreement on the aspect that much of this has been sold to us on a “turn brain off” basis, by means of simple repetition…which I suppose is the point I’m really trying to make here, much of it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. It could still be correct, but I have big red flags raised when things are sold by simple repetition. With this many years coming & going, I would expect to see some more hard evidence that terrorist recruitment is doing well because of incidents like this, and I would expect to see that hard evidence discussed out in the open. I was writing against the clock on this thought, and perhaps I didn’t phrase it well.

It also occurs to me that, if the job is one of suicide bomber, a problem with the bad guys enjoying a successful recruiting drive would work itself out naturally, would it not? So long as they hit the target as often as a Star Wars Stormtrooper, which generally seems to be the case.
- mkfreeberg | 01/13/2012 @ 10:50
I’m just tired of the whole “terrorists recruitment” meme. What did the Taliban recruit with pre 9/11/01, “Hey, are you sexually confused because Islam has a misogynous attitude towards women?”, “Do you hate laughter, music and dancing and happiness in general?”, “Do you like boy sex?”…”Well do we have a place for you…”

I’m tired of us always using the damn lazy and ridiculous excuse of recruitment BS.
We can’t show pictures of a dead Osama, we shall repent and flog ourselves for eternity because some sick fucks stacks some naked dudes in jail…blah, blah…Well, what the fuck about missiles coming out of the ski and killing everyone within a two hundred yard radius including women and children (don’t get me wrong, it’s gott’a be done), or a Marine sniper killing some kid who’s about to plant some IED, etc. one could easily argue those type of things are “recruitment tools“.

Or what about our “western lifestyle”, shall we acquiesce to our enemy (Yeah, Biden, they’re our enemy) and give up all our liberties, traditions and customs and convert to Islam because that pisses them off (no pun intended) too? (Though I am willing to do without the Kardashians, most everyone in Hollywood, all rapppers, Mary Hart, people who Tweet…)

And don’t even get me started on Al Qeada, their whole basis is Islam, shall we do away with Muslims…? Hang on…on second thought…I like where I’m going with this…Yea, yea, let’s do away with these recruitment tools, let’s start with Islam.

Sorry, Morgan, didn’t mean to take it out on you, it just tweaked me and I couldn’t stop. My problem is more with Hillary (Why the fuck is the Sec. of State spouting off about this?) and the other bleeding hearts who ALWAYS use that idiot, shit for brains logic. Yeah, overreact, keep it in the news cycle longer than it should, make a big deal about, that’ll REALLY help, ya‘ dip wads. Piss on ‘em.
- tim | 01/13/2012 @ 12:02
It’s interesting that between dem and Republican administrations, the “keep it in the news cycle as long as possible” mindset persists.

However, with a Republican in charge, it must have been the White House that failed to maintain the discipline…or maybe issued orders to engage in the behavior that demonstrates the breakdown in discipline…and to take pictures I guess?

From what I see here, things the way they are, the responsibility stops somewhere around the level of pay grade O-5 or O-6. I find that curious and strange. I’ll bet there’s no coherent, rational argument supporting it.
- mkfreeberg | 01/13/2012 @ 12:13
This guy’s got the right idea.
- mkfreeberg | 01/13/2012 @ 12:47
“…by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.”

Heh.

Love the thinly veiled shot at the One.

Al West is my Sec. of Def. on my fantasy administration league team.

John Bolton is my Ambassador to Saudi Arabia…screw it, to the whole Middle East, he can handle ‘em all.

Nancy Pelosi, Ambassador to Iran…yeah, I know we don’t have one but she doesn’t know that. Just take her, please.

Michell Malkin, Ambassador to the UN so she tell them we’re done, out, finished, take your tired act and get out of NY.

Ron Paul, Chairman of the Fed…to abolish it.

Sarah Palin, Sec. of Energy. Drill Baby Drill. Then abolish it.

Newt, VP ( I don’t like him enough to be Pres. I juts want him to debate Biden. Plus get in Harry Reid‘s face, all the time.)

My Prez…at this point…anyone but Barry.
- tim | 01/13/2012 @ 13:49
“It helps terrorist recruiting!” has always been a political cudgel, nothing more.

Have you ever seen a historical/social analysis of “why X joined the Y movement,” for any movement that wasn’t useful in bashing conservatives?

For instance: there are umpteen potted analyses of any “right-wing” movement you care to name — the Promise Keepers, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society — ready and willing to psychoanalyze enormous numbers of people at great distances… and whaddaya know? Turns out they’re all bitter clingers.

On the other hand — to take a relatively apolitical example — I don’t recall seeing a tome on “why poor whites joined the Confederacy” anywhere on the history shelves at Barnes and Noble. I’ve seen the conventional wisdom in every Civil War book I’ve ever read (“poor whites liked the Confederacy because at least they were better off than slaves”), but have there ever been studies done on this? Given the amount of eggheadery and obsession surrounding the Civil War (and confessing that I’m far less-read in the subject than your average buff), you’d think there’d be any number of analyses.

One thing I know you don’t see is “why people join left-wing terrorist movements.” Which is funny, because ex-Weatherman Bill Ayers has written many, many books (Dreams from My Ghostwriter, perhaps?) and is absolutely shameless about his felonious past; I’m sure he’d be happy to talk about it. In a similar vein, nobody in the media has ever suggested that crackdowns on OWS will lead to a resurgence of… well, of the Weather Underground, for instance, or suchlike groups.

Leftists don’t give a crap about al-Qaeda recruiting, anymore than they give a crap about Weatherman recruiting, Viet Cong recruiting, Sendero Luminoso recruiting, or Hezbollah recruiting. In their minds, these are the good guys, standing up as they are to western imperialism (you’d never see a Rachel Corrie getting flattened by a Hamas bulldozer tearing down a kibbutz). The only reason they pretend to care is that “this helps al-Qaeda recruiting!” is one more handcuff on the American military, aka The Real Enemy.
- Severian | 01/13/2012 @ 14:44
You’re right there’s a lot of posturing and duplicity about it. Still, it’s not entirely false; who’s to say why such-and-such a guy joins such-and-such a movement? In fact, a couple years ago I was noticing MOST of my like-minded blogger brethren, going by their descriptions of it, as of 9/10/2001 were registered, long-standing, habitual and ideologically indigenous democrats. I say “most” literally…which is really saying something. But then again, what a day that was.

My biggest fear about this kind of thing is that we’re becoming “arse-covering prigs.”

Who the hell do they think they are? I report to the Prime Minister, and even he’s smart enough not to ask me what we do. Have you ever seen such a bunch of self-righteous, arse-covering prigs? They don’t care what we do; they care what we get photographed doing.

I’m not really the first one to quote that line, with regard to this latest incident, am I? Can’t be.
- mkfreeberg | 01/13/2012 @ 14:54
I’m with Tim. Can’t add a thing. I’ve already hashed out the subject over at what Morgan calls the Hello Kitty of Blogging…with a well-meaning friend who is worried sick about what this is going to do to our “image” and about the Marines (as US forces) retaining the “moral high ground,” whatever that is. For good measure, he asked me what I would think if Taliban were found urinating on dead Marines.

I said, “They’re too busy burning US marines and hacking their heads off and dragging them through the streets and flying airplanes into buildings and committing untold atrocities on Afghan civilians…to have time to think about pissing on a bunch of Marines.” We’re so far past that point already that the discussion is moot.

I’m disgusted, but not with the men who did this. I’m disgusted that even my favorite presidential candidate wants to punish these young men (albeit mildly). I’m disgusted that even those like Col Oliver North, who thinks it’s much ado about nothing, still wants an investigation and a comeuppance for the guilty. I’m disgusted that one inch of print or electronic media has been wasted on worrying about this.

Pissing on dead Taliban is the least of what I’d like to see done to them. They’re disgusting, reprehensible monsters who long ago utterly forfeited any right whatsoever to respectful treatment.
- cylarz | 01/16/2012 @ 01:04

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