House of Eratosthenes

The rich do not pay the most taxes, they pay ALL the taxes

The headline is simply false. The top 40% pay the most federal income tax as a group, but there are other taxes borne by the other 60%, from payroll and excise taxes, to local and state taxes.
- Zachriel | 01/16/2014 @ 09:28
The information in the article is very clear about the context, and that isn’t it.

“Rich” is also a relative term. Check out Table 1, p. 8. The middle fifth averages net annual pay in the high fifties, grossing in the sixties in 2009 and 2010, measured in 2010 dollars.

Some people wouldn’t call that rich. Quite a few would. It certainly is not unreasonable to use the term “the rich” to describe people who make that much — and up. Of course, it’s kinda screwy to compare a guy who makes $75k a year in Nebraska to a guy who makes that much in New York City…but y’all will have to take that up with whoever invented that system, it’s not me.
- mkfreeberg | 01/16/2014 @ 19:10
mkfreeberg: The information in the article is very clear about the context, and that isn’t it.

The headline remains false.
- Zachriel | 01/16/2014 @ 19:23
No, y’all have to make it false by applying y’all’s own interpretation to “all the taxes.”

“We’ve come up with a way to interpret the statement that would make it false” ≠ “it’s false.”
- mkfreeberg | 01/17/2014 @ 03:46
mkfreeberg: y’all have to make it false by applying y’all’s own interpretation to “all the taxes.”

Um, “ALL the taxes” (their emphasis) means all the taxes. What did you think it meant?
- Zachriel | 01/17/2014 @ 05:36
Step one in the fine art of falsifying things — which which y’all obviously have an enthused fascination — is to interpret the statement according to the writer or speaker’s intent.

Baby steps. Work on that first. You don’t get to falsify things by saying “We interpreted it this other way, and that would be false.” You have to watch the video and find out what taxes are being discussed.
- mkfreeberg | 01/17/2014 @ 05:45
Income taxes are only ≈40% of federal revenues.
- Zachriel | 01/17/2014 @ 05:49
And were they talking about federal revenues in this video?

Yes or no?
- mkfreeberg | 01/17/2014 @ 05:54
mkfreeberg: And were they talking about federal revenues in this video?

Yes. That’s exactly the point. Jane Wells noted the report was referring to federal income taxes, and never used the phrase “The rich do not pay the most taxes, they pay ALL the taxes”. The headline is false, as is the new ticker in the video.
- Zachriel | 01/17/2014 @ 12:10
By the time we’re about fifteen seconds in, it is clear we’re not watching the same video.

This is about taxes…tax burdens…income taxes.
- mkfreeberg | 01/17/2014 @ 18:28
mkfreeberg: This is about taxes…tax burdens…income taxes.

Yes, that’s right. The video was accurate. The headline and the ticker are false.
- Zachriel | 01/17/2014 @ 20:14
So as we distinguish between federal revenues and federal taxes, we see the video was talking about…taxes. Not revenues.

When y’all don’t like what’s being pointed out and try to produce confusion about it…aren’t y’all supposed to be, ya know, doing a better job of it? Once one takes the time to check out y’all’s claim that the headline is false, the finding that comes back is that it’s true.

Not even sure what your tangent is supposed to be about here. Don’t think y’all know either.
- mkfreeberg | 01/18/2014 @ 06:31
mkfreeberg: So as we distinguish between federal revenues and federal taxes, we see the video was talking about…taxes.

If the income tax constituted all taxes, then the headline would be correct. However, the income tax only constitutes 40% of taxes. Most of the rest is payroll and excise taxes, which nearly everyone pays.

mkfreeberg: Not even sure what your tangent is supposed to be about here.

The headline, “The rich do not pay the most taxes, they pay ALL the taxes”, is false.
- Zachriel | 01/18/2014 @ 08:25
“The taxes” is contextual. Once you watch the video, it’s clear that the narrative is about income taxes.

You have to understand what the speaker is saying before you can debunk it. That’s, like, Debunking 101 stuff.
- mkfreeberg | 01/18/2014 @ 10:17
mkfreeberg: “The taxes” is contextual.

The phrase was “ALL taxes”, emphasis in the original. The headline is false and misleading.
- Zachriel | 01/18/2014 @ 10:50
And “the taxes” is contextual. The writer was obviously talking about income taxes.
- mkfreeberg | 01/18/2014 @ 10:54
mkfreeberg: And “the taxes” is contextual.

The headline writer was either confused or purposefully misleading. The headline is false and misleading.
- Zachriel | 01/18/2014 @ 10:58
I never thought they were talking about anything but income taxes.

Probably most people would interpret it that way. Income taxes are based on, ya know, income, and that’s the metric with which “the rich” is concerned, income. Why would I think they’re taking the time and trouble to inspect sales taxes on the transactions incurred by rich people vs. poor people? That would be illogical.

Y’all made an illogical assumption and are trying to infuse it into the statement made, so y’all can declare it “false.” Y’all have a breathtakingly low standard of self-assessment for the job y’all do “falsifying” things.
- mkfreeberg | 01/18/2014 @ 11:02
mkfreeberg: I never thought they were talking about anything but income taxes.

If you only read the headline, you would certainly not get that impression. News stories are read from top down, with the most important information near the top. People often read headlines to get a short synopsis of the news. For instance, from the Chicago Tribune, we have

Pregnant woman among 3 shot on Dan Ryan ramp
Snow expected, SW suburbs to be hit hardest
Dozens get sick on Caribbean cruise ship
Elk Grove Village man not guilty in Okla. bomb plot due to insanity
5 hurt, 4 seriously, in downtown crash
Pope won’t be lenient with predator priests: ex-prosecutor
W. Virginia firm files for bankruptcy after chemical spill
At least two U.S. citizens killed in Kabul attack: embassy

A whole day’s news from headlines.

Now, we have a false and misleading headline which says “The rich do not pay the most taxes, they pay ALL the taxes” {emphasis in the original}.
- Zachriel | 01/18/2014 @ 11:08
Now, we have a false and misleading headline…

It’s not misleading. “The rich pay all the taxes” would have to be referring to income taxes. It’s just not feasible for it to apply to anything else.

And it certainly isn’t false.

Now if y’all want to get sticky and technical about it, the distinction we should be making is between wealth and income. Y’all need to start criticizing the people who call for higher taxes on “the rich,” since what they should be trying to push is a new wealth tax.
- mkfreeberg | 01/18/2014 @ 11:31

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