House of Eratosthenes

Why such outrage going on in the Bush era, with things that pale in comparison to what’s being done in the Obama era that meet with majority-approval?

Part of it could be illusionary. The Bush-hating people have always been a loud bunch, eager to make their numbers look more formidable than they really are. And it doesn’t seem to me like the questions on this survey are good ones. I myself think of this privacy-versus-security balance to be a delicate and finely parsed thing; it should be settled by the language in the U.S. Constitution; that language is hard to apply to modern situations, although it is well established in our system of laws that there’s a certain sequence to elevated investigative and prosecutorial privileges based on suspicions formed and then validated by some independent judicial authority. The questions do not parse things that finely so it’s difficult to determine how I myself would answer, therefore I’m not sure what 56% means exactly.

But it’s a cinch that anything that sounded like “wiretapping,” up to January 20, 2009, wouldn’t net a 56% approval.

And so we have people who approve of Obama doing exactly what they think makes George W. Bush some kind of a “war criminal” or some such — and much worse. They do not self-identify as liberals, I don’t think.

And there is a problem. Our nation’s “centrists” are not centrist, although they think they are. Furthermore, they seem to be sincerely frustrated that other people start “labeling” them as “left-wing” or “liberals” or “Obama fans.” They hate the labeling…but they can’t seem to understand how they’re bringing it down on themselves.

Somehow, the “truth” has set in that if you want to maintain your indie status and don’t want to lean one way or the other, but the situation requires just such a leaning…leaning left is safer. Now, why is that? Perhaps my perspective is skewed, but it seems to me it has to do with our social understanding of “moderation.” I can think of some ways to measure this. I’m still hearing Sarah Palin criticized for “her extreme positions,” and when I ask for specific examples of this I never get any back. This provides additional foundation for the idea that people are forming opinions about certain identifiable names, and they’d like to pass off this surface appearance that they’re forming the opinions based on something substantial but they’re really just doing it to impress others. Putting it more simply: They just don’t know what they’re talking about. They’re clueless.

If we’re really looking to stay “sensibly” centrist, approving of moderate positions and excoriating extreme ones, it occurs to me that you can’t get much more extreme than: “It’s alright to have our agencies spy on American citizens only when our guys are running things.” That would seem to me to be about as extreme as they come. And it isn’t the right-wingers pushing that, it’s the left-wingers pushing that.

And the so-called “centrists” backing them up. Which would mean our centrists aren’t really centrist; they’ve become extreme. What’s tragic is, they’ve been fooled into being that way.

It sounds funny — I can already hear the leftist howling — but I think this is because the modern American right don’t do extremism very well.

More specifically: I don’t think there’s such a thing as a “right-wing extremist,” but — here’s the key — I don’t really think there’s such a thing as a “left-wing extremist,” either.

“Extremist” is a personality type. An extremist is a neurotic whose neurosis manifests as an unquenchable desire for purity. It’s ideology-independent. Take the loudest-mouthed Occutard and teleport him back to medieval France; he’d be an Inquisitor in short order. Drop him in Imperial China, he’d be a Mandarin. Drop him in revolutionary France, he’d be all-in with Robespierre…. but— drop him in revolutionary America, and he’d be all-in with Jefferson.

In our culture, the extremists gravitate to the left, because the left makes its living on purity. Want to be sure you’re a good person? If you’re a conservative, this involves a lot of soul-searching, and a lot of action. If you’re a liberal, you just have to mouth the right platitudes, and volume = virtue. So if you don’t care one way or the other, it’s much easier to mouth leftist platitudes — a conservative might try to convert you, but a liberal will try to destroy you. You’re impure, you must be eliminated.

Or not. I think extremists are pretty rare overall (though sadly growing increasingly prevalent in this age of narcissism). But why take the chance? It’s much likelier you’ll run into one on the left, so it’s best to go along with liberalism… just in case.
- Severian | 06/11/2013 @ 10:15
I’m convinced the 56% figure is social engineering. Even if it turns out not to be — even if our nation is so insanely stupid as to believe this huge database won’t be used against them whenever it’s convenient for TPTB to do so — I’d still fight it tooth and nail. Someone has to.
- Soozcat | 06/11/2013 @ 20:14
It’s also in how it’s cast. Remember, this isn’t “wiretapping,” it’s just “looking at your records.” Never mind that some basic social engineering can reveal a lot about people even if you don’t know the actual content of the calls thus recorded… nor that the left is far beyond basic when it comes to their data mining and social engineering skills. Heck, it’s highly-likely that their edge in tech and in what to do with this data swung the 2012 presidential election!

I don’t like how the initial alarm and furor over this is so quickly fading. I understand it well enough – scandal fatigue, the success that even the mortally-wounded MSM still have in framing debate… part of it is even healthy, because a normal person can’t maintain the fever pitch of outraged outraging that the Left seems to require. Only the deranged can perpetually freak out about things; we’re too mentally healthy to keep up with progressives on this score, and thank God for that. But if we can’t be furious for long, we can at least have an implacable resolve not to let these bastards scuttle our country.
- nightfly | 06/12/2013 @ 07:29
I simply don’t think it’s anything more than Democrat = Good, Republican = Bad. Now to break that down as far as % of identifiable group of overall population is difficult and boring. As difficult as the historic 2010 election of Republicans taking seats they haven’t had in…forever. To as boring as analyzing the 2012 reelection of the disaster that is one Barry Soetero.

Think of the outrage during the Bush years involving…everything. Now compare that level of malevolence and contrast the level of attention to Bronco Bama’s lead by scandal game plan.

All in all, I don’t acre if 90% of my fellow ‘Mericans approve of any of this shit. Last time I checked we still have a constitution. Even if nobody knows what the fuck it says.

Slightly off topic; fundamentally transforming America by destroying the very thing even Progressives love – big Government? Anybody else starting to think this is all by design?
Can anybody be THIS stupid? Am I not giving ‘em enough credit?

Can/does this get walked back? Permanent shit stained walls now?
- tim | 06/13/2013 @ 10:25

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Tuesday, June 11th, 2013